TENDLER vs TENDLER
Which one can you believe?
Some sound files are not yet edited from the complete shiurim. There will be more items added as we become aware of them. Some sound files are a little longer than the actual quote, to prevent the claim that they may have been taken out of context.This page will be updated as we process more material, there's plenty of it. All audio quotes are straight from the lectures of Dr. Tendler on the YUTORAH.ORG website.
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“I didn’t even know of the twin boys at Miamonides until I read about it in the newspapers.” (Note that newspapers first wrote about this in Feb. ’05) |
“The man is under investigation now for infecting several children, two of whom died… with herpes. I’ve heard a case in Miamonides a few weeks ago, a baby died and he was the Mohel.” | |
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“…I had no knowledge of death of the baby on Oct. 26 from herpes.” |
“A few weeks ago he maheled the twins in Miamonides and one of them died..” shiur by R Tendler-12/8/04 Listen HERE | |
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"I have the highest regard for Rabbi Fischer Shlita |
“The mohel was Fischer.. that no-goodnik… Hungarian… uch!” Shiur by R Tendler – 12/8/04 Listen HERE | |
| I co-authored a research paper (with seven pediatricians) concerning eight cases of systemic Herpes infection in newly circumcised infants whose mohelim tested positive for the virus. Letter by R' Tendler to Yated -2/25/05 |
Only four mohels could be tested, and they were found to be seropositive for HSV; the mouth cultures obtained from mohels all were negative for HSV. PEDIATRICS August 2004). (Ed. Note- Only three of six mohelim were tested. None produced a virus. The same mohel in case 7 & 8 was counted twice.) | |
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“Government agencies must not intrude into the domain of Milah practices.” Letter by R' Tendler to Yated -2/25/05 |
“..there will be legislation on Mila..” shiur by R Tendler- 12/8/04 Listen HERE | |
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“Is this herpes simplex 2?” (R. Tendler was asked, and responded) “Yeah” shiur by R Tendler- 12/08/04 Listen HERE |
“it’s the plain cold sore herpes” (herpes simplex 1) | |
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“The father asked him to use a tube. He did so. End of story.” Letter by R Tendler to Yated -2/25/05 |
“I put my hand in front, I stopped him, I said 'no, you use a tube..' ” Shiur by R Tendler -12/8/04 Listen HERE | |
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"Responsum of Rav Hagaon Elyashiv Shlita to use glass tube because of danger to Mohel. With 80+% of American carriers of herpes, dangers to child is significant, oral suction is therefore a violation of halacha!" |
"and G-d forbid to change any aspect of Milah." | |
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“Quoting my father-in-law, the great R. Moshe Feinstein..it’s embarrassing that someone does a thing like that. This should not go on in dealing with Halacha, where absolute integrity is critical.” Talkline with Zev Brenner- 3/4/05 |
Reb Moshe answered “Chas Vsholom to be mevatel it (metzizah bpeh)” and proclaimed “Shomer Mitzvah Lo Yoda Dovor Ra” My Father Reb Moshe zt"l taught not to nullify it and added "the merit of the mitzvah will protect them" -Reb Reuvan Feinstein Shlit"a Kriah Kidosha 1989. | |
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“It’s clear that saliva of one person can effect the wound of someone else” |
“..if it does or doesn’t, is really irrelevant. The fact that we are getting away with it, HKB’H is protecting us.” Talkline with Zev Brenner-3/4/05 | |
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(Tendler) suggested the danger in that herpes virus is mutating and the Jewish community can expect to see many more cases of the disease, unless the practice (metzizah b’peh) stops. |
..polled several prominent pediatricians…advise unanimously that the frequency of post-circumcision herpes is nil. | |
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“The discord and unpleasantness would have been prevented, if discussion and debate within the confines of our community had been initiated, as soon as the problem arose." (Ed. Note- It should also be noted that Dr. Tendler broadsided the Orthodox Community by publishing in a medical journal without first voicing his concerns to the Gedolim here in the U.S. or in Eretz Yisrael) |
“and the Mohel was Fischer, and I had to call the city’s state department” and “It is not in public yet, but it will be. This case is making it to the courts now... there will be new regulations… legislation on Mila, but only in New York City. The case is in NYC, the city department is taking over.” Shiur by Tendler- 12/8/04 Listen HERE | |
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“I never contacted any Health Dept. personnel either in NYC or Rockland County.” Letter to Yated from R' Tendler-2/25/05
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“and the Mohel was Fischer, and I had to call the city’s state department” Listen HERE and “I’ve had a bunch of women marching in and out of my office downstairs, all the Health Commissioners…” Shiur by Tendler- 12/8/04… | |
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"I understand… a tape of a shiur I delivered in Yeshivas… In response to a talmid’s question, I used verbiage proper for dramatic effect in a shiur, which would not be proper for dissemination in a public forum. Nothing I said in the shiur contradicts what I write in this letter." Letter to Yated from R' Tendler-3/05 |
"...you published the false rechilus and loshon hora fabricated by those of your informants" Letter to Yated from R' Tendler-2/25/05 (Ed Note- Why was the recording on the YU Website ALTERED? The first 40 minutes were replaced with a different lecture. | |
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“None of them (Gedolim) associate metzizah bpeh with the act of milah.” Talkline with Zev Brenner- 3/4/05 |
“whoever does not perform metziza.. bpeh davka.. should be banned from performing a bris mila” Psak Halacha by Harav Wosner shlita- 2/27/05- see HERE Psak by Rav Nisim Karlitz Shlita Adar 5765 see HERE Psak By Rav Eliyashev Shlita Adar 5765 see HERE | |
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“With advances in medical techniques and knowledge, mohels are required by Jewish law.. following current medical thinking and avoiding oral suction...”
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Dr. Joseph Lister, inventor of antiseptic methods, in 1877, declared, “I will reveal to you another amazing medical secret.. no infection can be transmitted via metziza…” Jews had been practicing an inherently antiseptic technique for over 3,000 years! United Press International- 3/2/05 | |
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R Tendler expressed grave concern regarding the involvement of the Health Dept with religious practices. |
“This case is making it to the courts now... there will be new regulations… there will be legislation on Mila… the city department is taking over” shiur by R Tendler-12/8/05 Listen HERE | |
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"Hardly hardly a week, a month, that goes by in a local community, like Monsey, where there isn’t a baby in the hospital with an infected bris milah. That’s because metzitzah b’peh is fairly common in our community."
shiur by R' Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
"We don’t have a Pediatric Urologist on call….", "I’ve worked here 25 years and I've never seen an infection. Occasionally we have some problems with bleeding …" -Conversation 4-18-05 with Emergency room nurse at Good Samaritan Hospital (next to Monsey) "To my knowledge, we have never treated a male infant in our emergency room with an infected circumcision due to the procedure you described." -Director of Good Samaritan E.R.. | |
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....paper we’re publishing involves 11 cases of metzizah bpeh. There are 9 co-authors of the Paper .” shiur by R' Tendler- Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
“We put together 8 cases of systemic infection in children following Metziza B’peh.” Shiur by R Tendler- 12/8/05 (Ed-There are actually 11 co-authors Pediatrics August 2004) | |
| "I'll show you next time, a paper that I'm a co-author of, it's just been accepted in 'PEDIATRICS' of six cases by one Mohel of Herpes infection of a child, child Herpes infection I'm referring to is HSV-1...."
shiur by R' Tendler -Milah 2 Listen Here |
(Ed.-There is no incident of a Mohel being linked to more than two cases. The article cites 8 cases, by 6 Mohelim and trumpets two cases 5 weeks apart involving the same Mohel, and two cases attributed to another Mohel at a five year interval. See the article HERE. See a critique of the article HERE. | |
| "....which had trouble getting into a reputable journal. J.A.M.A. turned us down because it was quote 'Too hot to handle' it will antagonize the religious element."
(Ed. Note: We have confirmed the paper was rejected by JAMA twice and not for the reason specified here.) shiur by R Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
"We get 5000 papers a year and we only publish 7% of them. Our two criteria are scientific value and reader interest." Conversation with Dr. Phil Fontanarosa; Deputy Editor JAMA, Journal of the American Medical Association 4/05 | |
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"that is a journal that published a few years ago an article entitled "The rape of the penis" attacking circumcision, nevertheless they didn't want to start up." (with the religious element). shiur by R Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
A web search revealed no such article in the JAMA archives at: http://pubs.ama-assn.org/cgi/search?fulltext=the+rape+of+the+penis&submit.x=5&submit.y=7
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"Pediatrics, which is the main journal where it should be published, finally accepted it. That’s only because we got six heads of departments of Pediatrics to co-author the paper.They just couldn't.. they couldn't turn it away." Listen HERE shiur by R Tendler -Geirut 1 |
See the official anti-circumcision policy of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Publishers of "Pediatrics" Magazine. A History of the American Academy of Pediatrics Anti-circumcision Policy, 1971-2004 See whom else quotes the AAP Policy HERE | |
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"I now have a difficult situation, a Mohel in our
Milah 1 Shiur January 1, 2004 by Rabbi Tendler in Yeshiva University Listen HERE
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The question arises, if Dr.Tendler knew this in Jan 04, why was it not noted as an addendum to the article submitted to "Pediatrics" in Nov 03. It is customary that relevant points of view, for, and against, are published alongside the articles in medical journals. It would have been a very poignant proof to the case that Dr. Tendler was trying to make. These alleged 2 children should have brought to four, the total number of cases that Tendler referred to in his Dec 8, 04 shiur. Yet, they seemed to have disappeared. And only two cases from October are mentioned. The Staten island baby did not die, as Tendler had stated, which leaves one of the twins as the only case where a baby is actually known to have died from Herpes, and as this writing (5/20/05) No connection to the Mohel has been made. It should also be noted NY City Dept. of Health Alert 2005 #46 makes no mention of these 2 cases even though it mentions all alleged case worldwide going back to 1988. | |
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The Chasidisha oilom has made it into such an ikar that mila consists of mila, pria, un metzitzah, against what the gemara says. The gemara says metzitah is sakanah, and nutin to do with milah. The Rambam says it's sakanah and nutin to do with milah and they have it all stuck together. shiur by R Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
גמרא שבת קלג : גמרא שבת קלג אמר רב פפא האי אומנא דלא מייץ סכנה הוא ועברינן ליה פשיטא מדקא מחללי עליה שבתא סכנה הוא מהו דתימא האי דם מיפקד פקיד קא משמע לן חבורי מיחבר ודומיא דאיספלנית וכמון מה איספלנית וכמון כי לא עביד סכנה הוא אף הכא נמי כי לא עביד סכנה הוא | |
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"There's a sefer out by Rav Sharai"......, "who was an apochryphal figure in the time of Reb Chaim"...., "He was a tremendous Talmud Chochom and a the most famous doctor in the area of Brisk...," "He wrote two seferim, one on yud gimmel middos which has no equal, just has no equal in lumdus and charifus, etc." shiur by R Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen HERE |
"He wrote a second sefer on metzitzah*, a sefer on metzitzah, proving that metzitzah is d'oreisah. OK, so I'm fully... I'm fully aware of the other side There's no basis to that side. None whatsoever, he misreads the gemorah etc, etc" shiur by R Tendler- Geirut 1 Listen HERE | |
| "A family blessed with a need to circumcise their son, must consult with their family physician and the mohel to decide whether oral suction should be used." | "That's Halacha L'masa there's no Heter for Metzitzah B'zman Hazeh. Plain Pushut. It's not a question of... if it's Mutter, is it required or not? It's Osser. Surely it's Osser B'zman Hazeh. Based on the knowledge we have it's Osser B'zman Hazeh." Listen here
shiur by R Tendler -Milah 1 | |
| This is in accordance with the ruling of the Gedolim of the last generation as summed up in the responsum authored by Hagaon Rav Elyashev shlita, when the AIDS epidemic began. “If there is the slightest concern, a “sfek sfaikah” of danger, one is to disregard the custom of our forefathers” and use a sterile tube when making metzitzah b’peh so as to protect the mohel, lest he contract AIDS from the infant.
-R' Tendler's Letter to Yated 2/25/05 (R' Tendler quoting Gedolim when he needs them) |
"What broke open the field was AIDS. Where the Gedolim in Eretz Yisrael were willing to... already say, and this is not nice what they said, that if you make Milah on a irreligious couple's child, then you can use a tube, so you should't get AIDS. I more worried about the Mohel giving AIDS to the baby." Listen Here
shiur by R' Tendler -Geirut 1 (R' Tendler quoting Gedolim behind their backs) | |
| "What broke open the field, was AIDS. Where the Gedolim in Eretz Yisrael were willing to... already say, and this is not nice what they said, that if you make Milah on a irreligious couple's child, then you can use a tube, so you shouldn't get AIDS. I'm more worried about the Mohel giving AIDS to the baby."
shiur by R' Tendler -Geirut 1 Listen Here (Ed.- Rabbi Tendler feels the Gedolim insulted non-religious parents by suspecting them of promiscuity.) |
"Then the second Herpes, Genital Herpes, which is a viral infection that never goes away. And the Mohel if he was involved.... This is a sexually transmitted disease, and the Mohalim are not exempt from that yetzer hora....
shiur by R' Tendler -Milah 2 Listen here (Ed.- Rabbi Tendler has no problem insulting Mohelim, by suspecting them of promiscuity.) | |
| (Ed.- R' Tendler instucting his students to keep the guard on as long as possible to minimize bleeding during Milah.)
"You've now crushed the tissue. You leave it for as long ..., as long as you can distract attention from the people by mumbling eh... something, right? The bracha supposedly that he makes, Right? And then runs the scapel along this way..." Listen here shiur by R' Tendler -Milah 2 |
(Ed,- Except of course if the Mohel is chasidish)
"Speed,... speed in this surgery, like old fashioned surgery was all that a Mumcheh offered you....", "And here speed... when you a hear a Mohel, a Mohel grabs it and he has to make a Bracha. Right? And he starts 'asher kidshunee bimitzvosav vitzivunee...' you know you're in trouble, it's not a time for kavanah." Listen here shiur by R' Tendler -Milah 2
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| "a battleground, that seperates uh...., basically the Chasidishe oilom from the Litvishe oilom. Not that the Litvishe oilom doesn't have metzitzah bipeh, but are willing to listen not to have it. whereas The Chasidisha oilom has made it into such an ikar, that mila consists of mila, pria, umetzitzah, against what the gemara says." Listen Here
Shiur by Rav Tendler. Geirut 1 |
(Ed- Lulai Dimistafina, If both the Litvishe and Chasidishe have metzitzah bipeh, it would therefore seem that the battleground is not between the between the Litvishe and Chasidishe, but rather, between the Litvishe and Chasidishe on one side, and the Reform, Neologue, and Rabbi Tendler on the other) | |
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| We are processing more tapes. Check back often. | Coming soon R' Tendler vs. RebMoshe |
*(Ed Note: In Defense of the author, R' M.M. Sharhai Z"L, The sefer, Mashiv Nefesh- Vilna 1906, comes with approbations from Shlomo HaCohain of Vilna and others. The first chalek is 110 pages of questions regarding difficult areas in shas and poskim regarding Halacha L'Moshe MiSinai, and shows unusual Gaonus and bekius in Bavli, Yerushalmi, and Rambam. The last 79 pages are divided into two parts,The second Chalek is dinim of Milah, and the third chalek is a defense against the attacks on Metzitah at that time. He was also a doctor, much of it is written from a doctor's point of view. After reading the sefer one will conclude that Dr. Tendler does not reach Rav Sharhai's toenails)
